Since Sliced Bread - the reaction

Francisco Cendejas's picture

David Weinberger, one of the author's of the Cluetrain Manifesto, has noted two articles discussing the recent frustration over the top down selection at Since Sliced Bread. One by Zephyr Teachout, former Director of Internet Organizing for Howard Dean's campaign, speaks well about what kinds of changes the project could have implemented to sustain a truly grassroots policy interest.

What worries me the most is that these criticisms of Since Sliced Bread will further discourage any union, particularly one as successful as SEIU, from engaging the public through the Internet. Will other organizations look at this (admittedly limited) example of IT implementation and find "proof that the openness only leads to messiness?" And, should this worry encourage labor/IT enthusiasts to point to the positive results of Since Sliced Bread, to show it wasn't a complete loss?

Wayne Langley's picture

Never Paid Attention

This entry actually got me to look at the Sliced Bread site which, up to now, I've had no interest in. I'm actually glad I did look because I found both the posts and the linked articles very interesting.

Why our International does-what-it-does is often a mystery to those of us toiling at the local level. Just the other day, a member and staffer from outside my local asked if I was casting a vote at Sliced Bread because they were alarmed at the ideas making it into the finals. I didn't vote because I had more important things to do. For me, there was something not right about the whole presentation of award money. Even the name play on "the greatest thing since sliced bread," put me off the whole idea.

I think SEIU is kinda schizoid about what kind of organization they want to be. Every time I think I've figured it out they throw a curve ball. Around technology issues, SEIU has been pretty innovative compared to other unions as you pointed out. But these nifty ideas have all been generated at the top and they feel quite distant from my pressing needs at the bottom. For example, there is still no cross-local network of technology people or administrators to share best practices. There is an "informal" one, but it is really catch-as-catch can and not officially encouraged.

I've personally been involved in a couple of abortive attempts by SEIU local and International tech people to network. One such attempt was organized out of the international's technology department and brought a group of about 20 local innovators with database, web, communication and administration experience all together in D.C.

We met for an entire day sharing our ideas and frustrations while trying to hammer out a viable working group. The synergy was really great, given how isolated we all felt. At the end of the day we were abruptly informed that the experiment was over. No reason given. End of story. All of that good energy was gone and replaced by resigned cynicism.

It's not that I don't value Purple Ocean or Andy's blogging or even the sliced bread campaign. I just feel what we desperately need, and what would genuinely matter to the labor movement and workers, are sophisticated technological applications at the local level, constructed on a firm foundation of adequate support and training. Anything less than this is building on sand. I can't even use what tools the International provides because I too busy holding together a patchwork infrastructure. What's happening now isn't even top down because that implies, at the very least, receiving orders rather than being ignored.

I may not know everything that goes on in our Locals around the country. Perhaps there are great strides being made by locals who are kicking out the jams on new organizational and technological apps. However, I do know what's going on in New England, and let me tell you, it's scary.

I wonder how long this cart-before-the-horse situation can continue? How long can we wait before shaping up? How many more elections can we lose before the point of no return. This is becoming a real faith based initiative.

hc's picture

how to fend off the tarpit of perfection?

It's great to be involved in this forum because I am encountering technology people who are not conservative and that is very refreshing. I am seriously dismayed at the trends in technology that have developed since I entered the field in the 80's. Common practice went from the sysadmins's code of honor to not read people's email, nor peruse their personal files, nor inject personal whims as to what usenet groups people were going to be allowed to access (anyone recall usenet?) to the belief that anything that goes on/through the "employer's" computer/network is fair game for management to look at and regulate.
Many computer positions have become management enforcement arms and many technology people have also adopted the conservative top down mindset to go with their human resources affiliation.

In other words, I think it's a very lonely role being an unconservative technology person nowadays and we need unions to support us!
Even universities, which should at least be concerned over privacy regulations affecting students, see email as fair game for juicy research grants so the heck with privacy:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1913303,00.asp

However, I can't say honestly I relish the idea of international unions getting technology on their radar. I have visions of memo's
dictating pantone colors, the official fonts, the official layout, and branding rules that must be applied to our web sites. (Take everything that made printed publications extremely expensive, tedious, devoid of content, and take months to put out, and apply those principles to the web and all communications. Getting that obligatory color image logo into those emails will not only afford many hours of frustration to everyone who would foolishly endeavor to send one but also allow the email to be unreadable if not unreceivable by a goodly chunk of the readership; Plus contribute to overrunning their quotas causing them to be bounced off the mailing list.

Internationals are so brainwashed to be like corporations these days.
Unions are NOT corporations. Until unions themselves figure that out
I don't know if I hold out much hope. I think the closest model I
can imagine for how a union needs to operate today is more like the French Resistance in World War II, than selling a product. Was the important thing in Nazi occupied France flashing the highly focus-group tested, consultant-approved "Resistance" brand? I don't think so! :-)
It is certainly true however that there is a definite segment of members who are very picky about communications and they will not tolerate an imperfect message. It's very disheartening to slave over the facts in a newsletter article, possibly going far out on a limb to warn people about some nefarious issue, only to receive some very snarky complaints from the readers about some obscure gramatical principle I never heard of. [Yes I'm sure that sentence violated at least 10 rules :-)] A large percentage of detail-minded, perfectionist types in the membership is a paralyzing negative force to be reckoned with. Is it even feasible to send out a newsletter to say a local full of English teachers/professors and not inavertently trigger the demise of the local? :-) Grammar-centric people will angrily delete the hastily written message "the martian's have landed on the square!" based on improper capitalization, bad punctuation and so on. The question is perhaps if the perfectionists should dictate the rule because for one thing, creating perfectly designed and executed communications bogs down the system and greatly increases the cost eg. those multi-MB PDF file three paragraph press releases everyone puts out. What do we want? a 2,000 byte text file that took 2 minutes to type, or a 200,000 byte pdf created by some $500 brain-busting publication layout program possibly taking hours to format? I'd vote for the former because I could live happily with a logo-less message but that's definitely a minority position these days were everything but everything must be branded. I say: "we're not cattle, we shouldn't be branded".

Steve Dondley's picture

My thoughts on "Since Sliced Bread"

Back in October, I listened in on conference call, open to the public, where Stern was going to make a "major announcement." That major announcement turned out to be the "Since Sliced Bread" web site. I remember being less than overwhelmed. It never even occurred to me that I should blog about it here on Communicate or Die. It was nothing more than an essay contest with an American Idol twist allowing the audience to participate.

I did pass the site along to a friend who does have a truly innovative policy idea and was looking for financial backing for it. Then he discovered that the idea becomes the intellectual property of SEIU. He certainly wasn't going to do that.

I think the real problem with SSB is that it smacks of gimmickry and so therefore came across as less than sincere. Who really thinks a hot new policy idea that no one ever thought of before is going to bubble to the top, get implemented, and change the world? Sure, the site might attract a lot of people in need of $100K, but it certainly isn't going to give birth to any kind of sustainable community. The lesson to be learned here is that applying 20th century PR techniques over 21st century media doesn't work.

What will change the world and the labor movement is the development and shaping of ideas through real, ad hoc debate on the Internet, not through some contrived contest. See this post as one good example.

Francisco Cendejas's picture

"False-starts" are discouraging openness & innovation

I remember the conference call... and remember thinking that a contest where followers of American labor news could easily imagine what ideas will be deemed as the best was not the innovation in organizing or ambitious industry-wide project I was hoping for.
My concern was that SSB's negative reception will stifle further Internet-enabled experimentation in organizing, media outreach, or member democracy. Reading Andy Stern responding on the defensive, and that poor staffer Terrence H. conceding user and union frustration suggests to me that raised eyebrows are questioning the wisdom of the contest in the first place.
Think of the what happened with Unite to Win Blog - for a short while, there was an unprecedented (though notably limited) amount of dialogue happening around future changes in institutional labor. Lots of contentious dialogue happened - perhaps a bit more openness was let out than originally intended. Then Unite to Win disappeared, trying to cover up any trace of its existence, and we got the static and boring http://www.changetowin.org/ instead. And, no union has picked up where SEIU started in UtW. Since Sliced Bread might go the same way - good idea, limited implementation, and bad precedent.

Steve Dondley's picture

I'm not too worried about it

Broadcast media like television and radio had the power to create a single national cultural identity. The Internet, on the other hand, allows individuals to create individual microcommunities. That's its real strength.

In my opinion, the Internet will never be able to help International unions more powerful or let them mobilize millions. Instead, the Internet will revolutionize the way unions work at the local level. So I'm not too worried about the failure of the SSB experiment making unions shy of using the Internet.

What International unions should be focusing their attention on is getting the technologies used to create microcommunities into the hands of their locals, not big grandiose ideas like SSB.

Wayne Langley's picture

I'm worried for a different reason

Unions will end up using computer technology because they will have to. Without it they will be unable to participate in civil society. It will become a form of suicide. I doubt this will happen because bureaucracies fear extinction more than change. Compare the number of unions who have web sites now then had them 10 years ago. A momentum towards adoption is building for many reasons.

The question for me is how well they will use ICTs. Whether they will be experimenting and leading or simply tagging after everyone else. Within bureaucratic structures, there are always many voices who find experimentation, except for that which is performed under the most controlled conditions, as dangerous. When I read the blog response from Andy Stern it didn't seem very defensive to me. More like an attempt to pour oil on troubled waters.

I agree with Steve that microcommunities give you more bang for the buck but larger communities that span continents are also possible. If 100,000 people can play an online, real time game together, certainly there is potential for coordinated strategic planning on a larger scale than was possible before. Even simple things like encouraging union members in one country to directly contact union members in another country. Hands across the waters and all that. Who knows what a dialogue like that would bring?

Steve Dondley's picture

What the brouhaha is about

I read through some of the comments on the SSB site here and it appears that chief complaint unfair selection of the finalists. Basically, commenters are claiming that Person B posted the same or very similar idea as Person A but after Person A. They argue that Person A should be the finalist, not Person B. And from reading the entries, I would say they have a legitimate complaint. No doubt it's a nightmarish mess for SEIU to be called out in public about the fairness of their contest on their own site.

It's pretty clear that those running the Since Sliced Bread contest obviosuly didn't think through the process of picking the winners very well. And they also ignored that a contest run on the Internet with participation from users had to be an extremely transparent process (especially when you're putting $200,000 in cash prizes on the line!). Now they appear to be suffering the fallout.

As Wayne hinted at above, there are three broad options for unions:

1) Ignore the Interent and become basically extinct.
2) Use the Internet but missapply it and become basically powerless.
3) Adopt and change themselves to fit the new social environment the Internet is creating.

Unions will eventually come to figure out #3. The question is how long will it take? And the other question I want to answer is what can we do to hasten change? I'll add more on the latter in due time.